Sarah Cottrell: Hi, and welcome to The Former Lawyer Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Cottrell. I practiced law for 10 years and now I help unhappy lawyers ditch their soul-sucking jobs. On this show, I share advice and strategies for aspiring former lawyers, and interviews with former lawyers who have left the law behind to find careers and lives that they love.

Welcome back to our summer series where you are getting to hear directly from some of my clients about their experiences in the Collab and then the Guided Track, and in the process of figuring out what it is they want to do that is not practicing law as they follow The Former Lawyer Framework.

Today you're going to be hearing the answer to the question: What is the biggest surprise that you have experienced thus far in this process following The Former Lawyer Framework as a Collab member figuring out what it is that you want to do that is not practicing law? It's always interesting to hear what is most surprising for people so I'm really excited for you to hear these answers. Without further ado, here are my clients answering the question: what has been the biggest surprise for you so far?

Client 1: I think the biggest surprise I experienced was how willing people, especially former lawyers, are willing to help you in exploring alternative careers in any real aspect of that transition, how warm and helpful they are. I think it's quite a change from the day-to-day adversarial nature that we experience practicing law and that sense that everyone's out for themselves in that competitive nature of our legal system and practicing law.

I think it was a very, very pleasant surprise how open and willing to help and just have conversations that others were. I think that when you do operate in the bubble of the legal profession, you forget that people really are genuinely willing to help and are kind outside of that bubble.

Client 2: I've been most surprised by how many people around me both in the Collab and outside of the Collab in my own life have felt very similar to me about the practice of law and the things that they don't like about it. They've put it in terms out loud almost exactly how I phrased it to myself in my head. It's as if we're thinking the same thing without even collaborating. We're both bringing that perspective independently.

Things like how a billable hour model can make you feel like you're spending too much time and too little time on something all at once, how all-consuming being a practicing attorney and especially a practicing litigator can be, how it assumes your identity, and how a lot of us have come from similar backgrounds of being really good, high-achieving students in school, how that formed our identity growing up, and how being a lawyer ended up being maybe a way to substitute something new for being a high-achieving student when we couldn't do that anymore.

All of those things I found a lot of people, especially in the Collab, really shared with me. It was nice to feel like we were all bringing those common experiences and we all felt the same way. It was very validating for me as I went through the process of trying to figure out what was next.

Client 3: I think the biggest surprise I've experienced so far is what a roller coaster it really is to think about what's next when you've been in the profession for a long time, a decade for me as a paralegal and attorney combined. It was a lot harder for me than I thought to answer some of the questions and the process of deciding what you want your career to look like and how far away from your current role and environment you're willing to walk or run towards.

Sarah jokes multiple times that everyone gets an existential crisis at some point during the Guided Track or the Collab. But she's absolutely right. I've had multiple, and it's okay I think even if you come into this process knowing immediately that the profession of law probably just isn't for you.

I think anybody who's made the decision to become a lawyer, to go through law school, pass the bar, and really try to certainly at least start a career or really even just consider a career in law has obviously put a lot of themselves and their identity. I think we in the profession share an awful lot of commonalities as to the reasons we gravitated towards this profession in the first place.

It can be a lot. It can feel very heavy to think about extricating oneself from this profession and having things lined up in a very prescribed way that I think a lot of us were hoping for. It can be exciting, scary, and anxiety-causing, but also wonderful and liberating. I think the biggest surprise is just it's not a straightforward process.

There's a lot of going all over the place, loop-de-loops, and directions that you never thought you would take. But I think regardless, it's still a lot of just-forward positive momentum. I really suggest to anybody who is considering the Collab and the Guided Track to take this leap, and you're not alone. Everybody else is going through very similar things.

Client 4: Deciding to start my own practice and reclaiming the term lawyer, 100% did not see that coming. When I joined the Guided Track, I was literally sick and tired from legal practice. Lawyer had become a burdensome part of my identity that I was embarrassed to claim because it took a lot of work to get there yet I was so miserable.

I understood that it's a socially competent role and I was ashamed to admit that it was causing me pain. When I joined the Guided Track, I had fully accepted that I probably was not going to work another day as an attorney once I served my notice period at work. Well, the Guided Track helped give me the confidence to start my own practice.

Shortly after I had wrapped up my job at the last firm I was at, my friend invited me to a conference for Christian women in leadership. I was hesitant and nervous to attend something like that so soon after quitting my job. But I knew, thanks to the Guided Track, I could go into that space without self-judgment. Surprisingly, I actually felt okay claiming the title of lawyer.

For once, I was putting myself out there on my own terms and that felt really powerful. Attending the conference, I connected with some women who made me realize that there are people who need my help and I finally felt that I could do that without needing to ignore who I am and silence my inner voice.

I was pleasantly surprised that I did not have to leave legal practice to feel good about my work. What I’ve learned through the Guided Track is that there's a world in which legal practice is very much aligned with my needs, intellectual interests, strengths, and values. It's been really lovely. Even if legal practice doesn't end up being something I pursue through retirement, I now know that I can make choices based on my criteria necessary to flourish rather than conform, and that's a really powerful feeling.

Client 5: I think the biggest surprise for me, and this might sound a little bad, was finding out what it means to be “present”. A lot of times, I'll hear people say that they want to be more present in their lives. They want to be more present with friends and family.

Back when I was even in law school or even as far back as an undergrad and definitely while working the Biglaw job, I'd always think that I'm not really sure what “being present” means. I don't know what it would mean for someone to want to be more present with themselves, other people were in experiences.

I had this moment at a family gathering after I knew that I was not going to be working this job anymore where it suddenly clicked for me what it meant to be present. Because while working and even while going to school, whenever I'm doing something, like being with people, having dinner, being with friends, there's always other stuff that's running through my mind.

There are two parallel train tracks, one that's like the actual event, experience, or gathering that I'm at, and then there's the other train track running loudly and dominantly in my mind of all the things that I have to do for school, the things that I have to do for work, all the anxieties, all of the frustrations.

Even when you're just trying to relax and have a good time, you're always afraid that somebody is going to email you. That Sunday afternoon email, that Friday afternoon call, you're always constantly on this heightened, alert state waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for that thing to come and ruin your vacation or to ruin your weekend because you know it's going to come.

There's always that separate thing or this anxiety, the to-do lists running along the back of my head anytime I'm anywhere. But then for the first time at this family gathering, it wasn't there and I was just having a good time with people. I've heard other people say this a lot where meeting with family and friends just becomes like I've checked that box off, you're just waiting for that dinner to be over, or you're waiting for that family gathering to be over so you can really get back to the thing that you really wanted to do which was to work.

I didn't realize it at the time while I was working but that's really what those experiences felt like. They felt more like, “Yeah, I have to check this box. I have to go spend this weekend with my parents. I have to go spend this holiday with so and so. But what I really need to do is go back and write that brief, keep doing this research, respond to that email, or just be on the lookout for emails.”

But suddenly, it wasn't there and it felt really great. It dawned on me that's what people meant by being present. It's just you're fully able to be in all of the experiences that you're having and really enjoy them.

Sarah Cottrell: As you've heard, there are all sorts of different things that can be a bit surprising in this process. One thing that is also a theme is that it is much easier to work through all of these things when you have some support and when you know in what direction you need to be going. That is what the Collab is designed to do.

The Collab, as I have explained previously, is my program, the entry-level program that I have for lawyers who are wanting to figure out what it is they want to do that is not practicing law. You can go to formerlawyer.com/collab for all the information. But one of the most valuable things I think that is part of that program is getting access to our community on Circle where you are able to ask questions and hear from other lawyers who are going through these same experiences and perhaps encountering some of the same surprises.

It is amazing how much commonality there is in these processes, even when people are coming from very different backgrounds, very different experiences, different types of legal practice, et cetera, et cetera. As always, thank you so much to my clients for answering these questions. I truly appreciate their vulnerability and willingness to share with you some of the things that they have experienced in this journey and in this process.

Next week, we're going to hear what each of these people would have told themselves if they were able to talk to themselves five years ago with the insight that they now have after starting this process. I'll talk to you next week.

Thanks so much for listening. I absolutely love getting to share this podcast with you. If you haven't yet, I invite you to download my free guide: First Steps to Leaving the Law at formerlawyer.com/first. Until next time, have a great week.